[00:00:00] Jay Topper: The world of commerce is undergoing a revolution. Today's consumer expects a buying experience that is nothing short of perfection. Your company's digital IQ has quickly become a new standard that drives growth and loyalty. Welcome to Chiefly Digital, the digital leader's guide to modern commerce.
Welcome to Chiefly Digital. I'm Jay Topper, the Chief Customer Officer at fabric. Today, I'm joined by Derek Yarbrough, the former Chief Marketing Officer of J. Crew and Madewell Brands, and a current free agent. Derek, right off the bat, how are you doing?
[00:00:41] Derek Yarbrough: I'm doing well. Thanks for, uh, having me.
[00:00:44] Jay Topper: And, uh, you got to tell me about your guitar in the background because I love it.
It's the second time I've seen it. So give me a little history there.
[00:00:52] Derek Yarbrough: I mean, I'm a huge fan of music in general. The guitar was a pandemic project, or I should say an attempt at a pandemic, uh, project. It's, it proves to be more difficult, um, than I planned, but, um, I still love it and make attempts, uh, periodically.
I have a, uh, saxophone that is little used as a pandemic, uh, exercise I tried to get into and I still have hope. Nice.
[00:01:24] Jay Topper: Good. So we'll start off with a question of your background. So just give me a, a play of your background and take your time. I'm interested in, you know, how you got to where you are and go back as many years as you want.
That's part of the story of, of why we're talking today.
[00:01:39] Derek Yarbrough: I would characterize my path to CMO as. a bit non traditional, but one that you're seeing more and more. So I, I basically grew up through the e commerce, uh, space. And I think that's something that you're seeing a lot more in, in CMOs, um, and similar type of roles, um, where people might have, um, much more of a digital background versus coming through a traditional, you know, either advertising path or ad agency path or, uh, You know, brand management path.
I did consulting right out of college, but I almost consider my first real, uh, job when I joined the founding team of walmart. com, um, which was a very exciting time and a height of the internet boom, 99, early 2000, um, they were just forming their first internet division. And I had this very cool role, um, on a, on a.
Business development strategy team trying to figure out what is Walmart going to do with the internet. And so that was kind of my foray into e commerce, um, you know, working at a startup that was part of the largest company in the world. So I was very lucky and got to experience, um, you know, as I said, the height of the internet boom, but also the bubble bursting, um, The dot com business being folded back into the stores, um, and, you know, the early, early days of omni channel, I think, in a lot of ways, I would characterize Walmart as Um, Pioneer for Omnichannel, so again, back in early 2000.
And since then, I've dabbled with, uh, D to C brands, especially, um, I had a period where I worked as a consultant in LA when the apparel business was really, um, exploding in LA with a number of emerging D to C brands. And I landed at the J. Crew Group in 2012. When they were in the very early days of starting Madewell, which for me was really the perfect situation of this startup brand, but within this larger entity.
And so it was this kind of magic sauce of, you know, having this very small autonomous Uh, team of people trying to figure out, um, what to do with Madewell and this really cool brand. But we had access to the incredible leadership and resources, especially the creative resources of J. Crew. And so for me, that was just this, I kind of think about those days as the golden era of retail.
Really, I think in so many ways, I just feel so lucky that I got to grow up. You know, really established my career at a company like J. Crew, um, working on two very iconic brands. And again, I started really focused more on the e commerce side. Um, but as e commerce became a more significant piece of the business, in a lot of cases, e commerce business overtaking the retail business, you're starting to see that You know, a lot of marketers are coming from these e commerce or digital slash performance backgrounds.
[00:05:14] Jay Topper: Yeah. That's, uh, that's fascinating. Now you, you didn't start it at J. Crew as a, as a chief marketing officer or did you?
[00:05:21] Derek Yarbrough: No, I was, uh, I was leading e commerce.
[00:05:24] Jay Topper: So what do you, what do you attribute to your path when you first got that, you know, first got that CMO title? Was it people? Was it circumstances?
Was it performance? Was it a combination? I'm always curious about how somebody first became that C level employee because it's a milestone and a worthy one.
[00:05:43] Derek Yarbrough: Yeah, I think that's a great question. You know, when I reflect back on it, you know, part of it was Just that, you know, e commerce and digital marketing were becoming a much more significant part of the business.
And in the case of Madewell was, you know, more than half of the business. I think ultimately I was grounded in The customer, right? And I think that's the reality of a lot of, um, you know, e commerce leaders is you're really grounded in customer data on a day to day basis just to do your job. So you're really looking at, okay, what is the customer doing?
How are they converting? How are they behaving? Are they coming back? And I think when you're really grounded first and foremost in what's happening with the customer, both. From a quantitative and qualitative perspective, you're naturally doing the role of marketing, right? That's really what a marketer does day to day as they think about what is the mindset of my customer, what is the need or the problems that my customers are facing, and how can I solve those problems, and then create messages that explain how my brand solves that problem for that customer.
In a place like Madewell and J. Crew, where The business is heavily driven by creativity. What an e commerce person or marketer does is optimization from a quantitative perspective. But I really became, um, appreciative over time of how important storytelling was and creative decisions were as a lever to drive the business.
And I really came to this conclusion that if the storytelling And the creative isn't in the right place. No amount of optimization is going to save your business. But if you have the creative and the storytelling in a really good place. Yes, optimization can take you to the next level. I think going back to your question, it was a bit of a circumstance that the reality was e commerce and digital were becoming critical to running a marketing organization in a retail business.
But at a business like J. Creed Madewell, having, um, you know, the ability to work with creative people and, you know, propel creativity and drive storytelling is the other part that kind of rounded out my ability to step into that CMO role.
[00:08:16] Jay Topper: That's fantastic and I like your thought on the the the digital mindset of customer centricity and looking at data sometimes hour by hour and then the ability to maybe wrap that into even what's going on in stores and other channels.
So I think that discipline as it rose and as e commerce rose. It started to permeate, which is really one of the reasons why we were having this podcast all around sort of the digital revolution. So my next question is, is, is going to be wide open. There's a movement, or there's a, a lot of feels like companies are trying to either catch up or stay out ahead at just a much faster pace than ever before.
Some of that is because their, their technology is inadequate. Some of it is their businesses are suffering. Some of it is They see AI on the horizon and maybe aren't clear, but it just seems like there's this urgency that has always been there, but, but it, it, no matter who I talk to in retail, I feel that urgency.
Why do you think that urgency is there when, first of all, do you, do you agree with that? And then if you do agree with that sort of transformative thing. Word that's used day in and day out. Why, why do you think this is happening right now in retail?
[00:09:35] Derek Yarbrough: I, yeah, I mean, I think, um, the landscape for sure has really, quite a bit more broadly.
Um, and the pace of change is faster than ever for someone, you know, like you and I, who, you know, have worked in the digital space for a while. We're used to that pace of change, right? So we've been through the ringer, the rise of e commerce changing retail. Then you had the rise of mobile, um, you know, D to C brands and disruption of retail with, with a lot of these, um, D to C brands.
Deprecation of cookie, the rise of privacy, scaling of influence or marketing. There's been so many things over the years that have disrupted that I'm kind of used to the reality that the marketing role for sure, at the very least, or the digital role changes every two to three years. Like the playbook is really, it's almost like you throw out the old playbook and you really start from scratch.
Whereas a lot of functions in retail. You know, the function necessarily doesn't change, um, like it does in marketing where it really fundamentally changes constantly. I think now we're just in a place where I think a lot of other functions are feeling more disrupted than ever before. Like the tools to do their jobs have really changed.
AI has really, you know, started to force the question of, you know, do we even need certain types of roles or can we start automating certain types of functions or processes? And in which case, where does human involvement add value? So I think right now there's just a lot of questioning. Obviously, There's also a lot of other disruptions happening in the world.
Um, maybe it feels like everything's happening all at the same time. And we're still in a lot of businesses feeling like the dust is still settling from the pandemic. So I think right now it's just maybe a little bit of everything.
[00:11:30] Jay Topper: I remember growing up. My, my dad would always say, you know, times, times are crazy.
And I wonder if I'm also just getting old and just always thinking times are crazy. But, uh, and, and I actually agree with you on marketing. I've, I've been alongside marketing for my whole career, uh, and very involved. And I don't think I've seen a function that goes through such a complete metamorphosis every two or three years, whether because of macro things that are coming down on it, like privacy and cookies, or if it's other things that the technologies that are coming out there and the, and the rise of e commerce, whatever those combinations are.
It's fascinating to me where the change goes, and I also think technology is, it goes a little slower because it takes time to change technology, but it's starting to get, enabling technology is starting to get important too. You had said something, uh, and I loved it, and I'm going to paraphrase it. Every time you go to do a change or take a company through change or a function or, or whatever.
You always want to know why, you know, what's the purpose of why we're doing this and you want to really ground yourself on that. When I asked you that question the first time we spoke, you said, you know, it's to build brands and grow the business. Like that mission hasn't changed. It's just the activities around it that have changed.
I really like that because I think there's a lot of churn to chase things for chasing's sake versus staying grounded. And then that. Tell me a little bit about that, you know, that it's kind of the, you know, staying grounded on what's important to the company while you go through these, these type of digital transformations.
[00:13:06] Derek Yarbrough: Yeah, I love that. I mean, I think at the end of the day, um, you know, my job as a CMO was to create demand. Period. And how I do that was, you know, really leveraging a brand platform, staying true to who the brand is, um, the, the promise of the brand, but also staying true to who the customer is and what they need at that time.
And so if you're doing those things, those things that really never changes. And my advice to anyone who's in a role like mine, CMO, a chief digital, you know, any of those types of roles, if you just stay close to your customer, you will naturally transform and evolve with them, correct? So it's not like the technology is changing the customer.
It's really the customer who's saying, Hey, I'm. Moving to this new platform, or I prefer to start shopping in this manner, um, whether it's on mobile or through the app or through QR codes, they're the ones who are telling us how they want to shop and they're indicating to us every day, the, the friction that they're running into.
So if we just. Just pay attention to that and listen to them and evolve with them. You're naturally going to always kind of stay, um, you know, in a place of transformation versus, you know, forcing the customer to do things how you want them to do things. And then after a few years, you know, you still want to do things the same way, but the customer has moved on, you have to then transform your business.
But if you had just always stayed close to the customer, um, you would have been right there the whole time.
[00:14:51] Jay Topper: Yeah. And there's a, uh, maybe you can comment on this too. I, I, I, every company says they're customer, customer centric. I've never worked for a company that didn't say That, there's a, there's a certain lightbulb that goes on with either a company or an executive where you really understand what that customer centricity is.
Where you're creating a one to one or one to several relationship and really trying to serve them and listen to them and bend your experiences to cater to what causes them bliss, you know, versus just reading surveys or whatever. You know, and trying to marry that with what you're trying to do and there's still sort of a bit of a forcing there.
So when did you first get like really customer centric where you kind of got it? You know, I think there's a got it component to customer centricity.
[00:15:41] Derek Yarbrough: Yeah, I don't know if there was ever a moment, um, as much as just realizing that It was the source of all truth. And I find that it's not enough to look at the macro data.
So in a lot of companies, um, there are, I would say great, you know, customer reports that go, you know, here's how many new customers we're bringing in, et cetera, et cetera. Great. That's important. I think the key is that you really dig two, three levels deeper. And even for executives. To be reading the comments, right?
Reading the survey results, not just getting the headlines, actually getting into the weeds. What are customers saying? What are the words that they're using? What's the emotion in their responses? Are they, are they upset? Are they excited? Overjoyed? And I think I'm really starting to get into that mind frame, um, is Really critical because it can unlock like tiny little nuggets that become bigger ideas, right?
And, and a lot of really great ideas in a, in a business, um, from the customer.
[00:16:56] Jay Topper: Yeah. I, uh, I think even, even interacting with customers, I know store visits, uh, have always been incredibly valuable to me. And at my CEO was, was Super, super accommodating to guide the other executives through what to look for and to actually speak to customers in a store, uh, or in social media groups.
We, you know, joining some of those and really getting your beat on it. So this is a big question, uh, or I should say it's a broad question and I'll let you play in it where you want. It seems just like the, the digital transformation is starting to permeate other departments and other functions and there's a little disruption going on.
The concept of data, uh, is, you know, whether that's data to be able to access it more quickly to make decisions or to actually bend it into your experiences to help, you know, build experiences that are more and more relevant and, and, and to the customer. It just seems like there's, there's a whole separate movement in and around data and rising the tide of the whole company to understand and appreciate it versus the small groups that are using it.
Do you agree with that and what do you think how that fits into a sort of the speed and the transformative nature of the environment is right now?
[00:18:13] Derek Yarbrough: I honestly, I would say Data, and I'm using that in the more, in the broadest possible sense, is number one priority for a business. And I saw the power of data, you know, when I first started at Walmart.
The, you know, a lot of this has been written about the history and success of Walmart stemming from their investments in data. And that's really what propelled their business when they kind of broke away from the pack of, you know, from Kmart and Sears, um, back in the, in the 80s. A lot of it was just investment in data and empowering their people to, um, have information at their fingertips that empower them to make better decisions.
And I think at the end of the day, that's what it's all about. When I was at J. Current and Madewell, um, you know, I think I came to really appreciate even more the power of qualitative data as part of that, so the quantitative data, absolutely, but also the qualitative piece of it, and really having that perspective of, okay, if the numbers say this, You always have to ask the question, why?
And so then you look at qualitative data and you find out from the customer, why is this happening this way? And so you can always validate. I think, you know, I'll say something that I have felt is a real unlock for a business in the world of data. So it's two things. First is giving. Easier access to data with team members.
So that could be either, um, making sure data's available on mobile devices, things like their, you know, reports and access to any kind of quantitative or qualitative data that, uh, an employee might have, try to find ways to make it mobile accessible. So when they're in a meeting, when, when you might be on site for store visits, you have access to data.
Cause having that real time access. You don't have to wait for a report or wait to download when you're at your desktop, but at your fingertips, when you need, when you have a question, the easier someone can access the answer, the more empowered they're going to be to make decisions and act quickly. So I think that's, that's one piece.
The second piece is. I encourage, uh, you know, and this is something we were starting to tackle in the last few years, but really encouraging businesses to look at the data silos that sit in their business. So each function in a business typically focuses on a certain area of data. So as a, you know, my e commerce team, is looking at site behavior, um, conversion data.
I might have a brand marketing team looking at awareness data or social sentiment. Merchants are looking at selling data. The store team is looking at selling data in a store. But the magic, I think, for a business is how do you connect the dots between all those sources? For example, if I'm an e commerce person, Uh, or let's say actually a merchant and I'm looking at my, I don't know, my jacket business.
I don't want to just see how many jackets I sold. I want to start asking questions like who's buying the jackets? What channels did they buy those jackets in? If I double click on e commerce, like the jackets I sold online, what geographies were they coming from? Was it men or women? Was a certain webpage a detriment and another page was?
A boom to that business. And so it's starting to connect those data silos to really triangulate and connect the dots across, uh, you know, different areas of the business to have a richer view of what's going on.
[00:22:06] Jay Topper: In the three years, when I was at Chico's, the transformation over three years of the data that the store leaders and store associates wanted at their fingertips, just kept going up and up and up to the point where, you know, You could even start to measure, uh, where they were shopping in the store and what was interesting and make merchandising moves, let alone traffic and conversion and AOV, starting to bring that digital urgency inside the store.
And then what do you think about purity of data? And what I mean by that is, uh, let's assume it's all good data, but I'm a huge advocate of in some, in most cases, letting data and information tell the story versus I have a story to tell, and I'm going to go find the data that supports it. And I've. I've struggled with that.
It's hard because you want to present what you think versus being surprised that the data actually takes you in a different direction. So, and I think as we move faster and faster and we have these different departments looking at data, staying pure and, and allowing yourself to bend around what you're seeing versus bending the data, I think is critical.
[00:23:18] Derek Yarbrough: Uh, 100 percent agree. I think, Storytelling is critical when you're in a business role to convey what the opportunity is to your leadership team, right? But you have to be honest, right? You have to look at the data and say, what is actually happening in my business? Um, and in some cases, I have to double click a few times to really understand.
Um, you have to be honest. Um, if you're seeing this problem, okay, I have to be able to tell that story, even if it's not the one that I was hoping to tell, then you have to do really great storytelling, and I think there is a skill set to kind of, you know, pulling data together to be able to tell a story, but I think I agree, you know, people should avoid bending data to tell a story.
[00:24:05] Jay Topper: That's right. And then where do you think, uh, with this urgency that's come, I feel like, uh, having a, not just a culture, but a, an infrastructure, and I don't just mean technical infrastructure, but sort of a foundation to promote. It's, it's sort of a combination question, promote speed, but experimentation at speed.
So you can learn quickly and pivot quickly. How critical and where do you put speed compared to when you first came in business Or you first started in 2012 at, at J. Crew to, to when you, when you left J. Crew not too long ago, was speed and urgency, was that starting to, to, could you feel the difference if you took a snapshot in each one of those, that decade gap?
[00:24:51] Derek Yarbrough: Yes. I would say it's more the scale of the testing versus the speed of it. I would prioritize scale. And what I mean by that is You know, not only that you're doing experimentation and you're doing it quickly, but you're actually, you've scaled it to a point where you're always doing it, right? And you really think about the volume of testing, the variety of testing, and the velocity of testing.
And so, and you know, and I was a big, um, you know, advocate for Documenting experimentation. So over time you could really hold the teams accountable for, okay, am I seeing that the, the volume of testing is going up? The variety of testing is going up. Are we expanding the testing into multiple areas? So not just website conversion testing, but we're testing marketing channels.
We're starting to do a lot of testing in stores and testing like, okay. Uh, messaging in Windows. And we have a group testing this message and another group of stores testing this message. Testing can live in the physical world as well. And I think that's the key is the scale of it. It's more about you're doing as many tests as possible to learn as much as possible.
That's really what the goal is.
[00:26:10] Jay Topper: You and I have come from different backgrounds where I've come up through the technology, uh, side primarily. And you've come up through the business side primarily, and we've learned to appreciate each other's areas. And when we talk about the past and we talk about those silos of, of data and information and the way people function, and now everything's starting to crack and come together, there's a, I have a fundamental belief that I know you share, and I'd love for you to talk about it for a few minutes of the fact that, that we're in this together and these silos aren't going to work and we really need to appreciate each other's opinion.
I'm sort of a, I can be a crazy cowboy. You might bring some intelligent process to it. You know, I might be super digitally savvy. Someone across the room, maybe less so that we have to really bring everyone into the room and harness the power of that type of diversity. Because that's what's going to enable a real transformation.
How do you feel about that? And did I capture that pretty close to right?
[00:27:08] Derek Yarbrough: Oh yeah, for sure. I think, um, you know, I probably would, would say it's a diversity of thought and diversity of approach, um, and bringing all those perspectives together and the common thread, um, across all of us is the customer, right?
So all of us, if we're all grounded in who the customer is, Um, what the customer data is, is telling us the problems that we're trying to solve, we can tackle that from different angles. And really, I think that shared mindset is really what the, the key to success is. And especially in a role like ours, um, you know, there's the reason that there are so many different titles, um, that's happening is it's because it's a very multifaceted role and what's needed in a company.
Also changes, um, year to year or even quarter to quarter and sometimes the task at hand, um, could be more about the brand or storytelling and other times it's more about the technology or messaging around products. So it always changes, but at the end of the day, our job is to create customer demand, engage our customers, um, move them down a funnel and delight them, right?
And so we all play a role in that. And I think if we kind of maintain that shared mindset. Then we can really appreciate, um, you know, the variety of approaches within the team.
[00:28:36] Jay Topper: Yep. I agree. And I, it was not that long ago. If I go back 15 years or 10 years in my career, there were definitely. A lot of pockets of turf and silos that just seem to not really work in today's environment if you want to be a business that has that customer centricity.
Last question is, when you look out to the future, so thinking the next even 1, 2, 3 years, what excites you within the innovation space? You've got AI, you know, out there, obviously. Uh, is a big one, but is there a particular technology or area of technology that you're most interested to see how that shakes out that could have impact in retail?
[00:29:22] Derek Yarbrough: I think that obviously AI is a very large bucket and you know, I'd say, you know, my, my take on AI. It's kind of twofold. So one is because I don't think it's either apocalyptic or the magic bullet, right? It's neither of those things. AI is is a tool. It is 100 percent going to transform businesses and the business world.
And I think that what people need to understand is if things can be automated in your business, They will be automated. So that's really, I think, embracing that idea of AI as I have opportunities to automate certain areas of my business and the areas that are easier to automate are going to go first.
The areas that are more complex to automate are going to go last. And there's always going to be a role for humans in that. I guess my prediction, if you will, with AI is that in the short term it's Uh, we're, we're going to see a lot of businesses focusing on that efficiency side of AI, and, and how can I streamline to take advantage, um, of this opportunity, either I'm not going to fill new roles or, um, you know, other areas where I can streamline, but at a certain point, you know, and I think this is going to happen relatively quickly, let's say even in the next two years, you're going to see that efficiency Game kind of level out and then you're going to start seeing this wave of Investment and innovation again in businesses as they realize, ah, AI is not just a tool for efficiency.
AI is a tool to help me further differentiate my business, right? So I can then start automating certain things that aren't adding as much value, which means I can further invest in the areas that are adding value. And some of those may have AI components, but they're always going to have human components as well.
And we're going to see this expansion of all these new roles that we've never even heard of, which is exactly what happened when e commerce came around was like, Oh no, it's going to kill, uh, all these businesses. Yeah. And fast forward 20 years, and now we have all kinds of jobs and roles and, um, opportunities.
Because of e commerce that we never had before. And I think about, you know, how exciting it is to be, um, you know, someone who's, I don't know, let's say starting out their career right now. I never thought when I was that age that I would be doing what I'm doing. And so I can only imagine how, you know, 20 years from now, what it's going to look like for, for someone that age, it's very, very exciting.
[00:32:08] Jay Topper: And there is some fear out there, I think for people too. And I remember a boss telling me, uh, one of my very first jobs when we were going through a, A big change is that the people that jump off the cliff first always have a parachute. So I think embracing ai, because I do think it's gonna be incredibly transformative, um, is, is super important.
[00:32:28] Derek Yarbrough: One thing to add there, which is, you know, 'cause I think it, it can be scary from that perspective of like, oh, my, my job might go away. But the reality is. When you think about what AI is going to do, um, all these things that it's going to automate, and even, you know, I was reading about, um, you know, certain aspects of AI could even take over, for example, influencer world, where you could actually, you know, I could, um, as if I were an influencer, I could train, uh, an AI tool to learn about influencer skills.
Who I am as an influencer, how I speak, how I present myself to the world and use AI to create more content in my look and voice, right? Which is interesting. But at the end of the day, what that all comes back to is still, you're still creating a brand platform and a brand universe. Storytelling. So even if you're using AI as a tool to expand your ability to scale content or expand into this area, uh, you're at the end of the day, you still have to create a universe.
You still have to create a brand. You still have to do storytelling and you still have to know who your audience is, um, and evolve with them. So the fundamentals of marketing. Are exactly the same as they were 20 years ago, even 50 years ago. And that will always be true. It's just really the tools have changed how we connect with the customer.
That is what will continue to change, but the fundamentals are still the fundamentals.
[00:34:05] Jay Topper: At the end of the day, there's an income statement and a balance sheet, and those things haven't changed for a long, long time, and those are still the beasts that have to be fed. Derek Yarbrough, what a pleasure it was to meet with you.
I really appreciate our time together. Uh, I'm sure we'll be talking again soon. Thank you very much for joining. Uh, my first guest episode on Chiefly Digital. Thank you. My
[00:34:28] Derek Yarbrough: pleasure, Jay. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:34:31] Jay Topper: That was super fun having Derek on our podcast this morning. Three takeaways I had from Derek, uh, was number one is when you're going through some sort of transformation, keep your eye on the things that are important to your business.
You're building a brand, you're growing your business, and the activities that fold up to a digital transformation still need to fit in. Into those primary buckets at the end of the day, there's an income statement. We're all trying to feed. So you need to, you know, do things that are enhancing the performance of your company.
And the two other pieces that I really resonated with me, number one is never stop losing that concept of customer centricity, really knowing your customers and whatever activities and discretionary spend you're using, that it is somehow enhancing the customer experience and bringing them more and more delight and love of your particular brand.
And then the third one is data. And. Data has always been important, but in today's world, making it simple, uh, keeping it pure, readily accessible by all. As the digital transformation movement permeates more and more organizations, more and more people want that ready access to data. So, those are the three takeaways.
I thought it was wonderful. I'll do my shameless plug for our sponsor, fabric. When you think about tools that allow you to, to use data and focus on the customer while also contributing to your company's success. Business performance. Our e commerce platform puts an incredible amount of power to the end users, and we are furiously looking to see how AI could put more and more decision making power within the end users that are managing the platform, such as our order management system, our product catalog, And giving the users more and more tools to be able to bend those experiences to the customer's bliss faster and faster.
So we believe in that. We believe that it's power to the employees with Insider Retailers so they can serve their customers better. Check us out at fabric. inc. So listeners, that's it for today's podcast and never miss an episode. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. I am Jay Topper, and this is Chiefly Digital.
Jay Topper 
25M 57S